I think part of my irritation with movie!Arthur is that he is just such an anachronism. I can buy the idea that he is a product of his belief system and environment, but what I don’t buy is that a man brought up with that belief system would be spouting off things about freedom and other platitudes that are essentially ideals usually declaimed by baldy written 20th (or 21st) century action heroes. Or modern politicians. As a product of his environment, Arthur would simply not have these modern notions of what “freedom” means. The movie makers took Pelagianism (which essentially went to the idea of original sin and how that tied into concepts of free will and the role of the Church) and twisted it. Ironically, if Arthur really were a follower of Pelagius, I don’t think he would have cared as much about obeying the Church.
Anyway, all your points are valid and well made (I especially liked the idea that Arthur (in his own silly way) was trying to protect his men by not telling them what the bishop actually said—I hadn’t thought of it in quite that way before), but I suppose part of my problem is I simply cannot escape the sheer bad history invoked by the movie (and don’t get me started on the date issue).
Sadly, I feel Arthur was secretly hoping his knights would return and fight with him (which they did), but that he was willing to let them go without any qualms.
You’ve hit here on something that has always really bugged me. If in fact Arthur actually expected (and maybe even wanted) to die in the battle—which I think there are grounds to believe—why on earth would he be happy to see his knights come back (and he clearly is happy)? Sure, a moment of “They like me, they really like me,” would be human, but really, do you want your pals to be joining you in what you might be viewing as a suicide mission? And how else to read his railing at end of the movie—did he really think that he might die but somehow no one else was at risk? This is why I have problems with him. He’s just—so, so maddeningly stupid. It’s hard to believe that someone with this sort of blindness could have, would have, successfully commanded men in battle, much less have survived with that sort of stupidity intact. It’s a child’s view of the world—making pacts with God and expecting them to be kept—he would have learned better, already, if there was any consistency to him as a believable character.
Anyway, blah, blah, blah, as Lancelot might say. ; )
And Hi, back at you, although you certainly don’t need to introduce yourself at this point. I always appreciate getting your kind and thoughtful comments. : ) I’m glad you’re enjoying the fic, and we’ll see how Res!Arthur and Lancelot develop—learning from the past or doomed to repeat it? Hmmm . . . .
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Anyway, all your points are valid and well made (I especially liked the idea that Arthur (in his own silly way) was trying to protect his men by not telling them what the bishop actually said—I hadn’t thought of it in quite that way before), but I suppose part of my problem is I simply cannot escape the sheer bad history invoked by the movie (and don’t get me started on the date issue).
Sadly, I feel Arthur was secretly hoping his knights would return and fight with him (which they did), but that he was willing to let them go without any qualms.
You’ve hit here on something that has always really bugged me. If in fact Arthur actually expected (and maybe even wanted) to die in the battle—which I think there are grounds to believe—why on earth would he be happy to see his knights come back (and he clearly is happy)? Sure, a moment of “They like me, they really like me,” would be human, but really, do you want your pals to be joining you in what you might be viewing as a suicide mission? And how else to read his railing at end of the movie—did he really think that he might die but somehow no one else was at risk? This is why I have problems with him. He’s just—so, so maddeningly stupid. It’s hard to believe that someone with this sort of blindness could have, would have, successfully commanded men in battle, much less have survived with that sort of stupidity intact. It’s a child’s view of the world—making pacts with God and expecting them to be kept—he would have learned better, already, if there was any consistency to him as a believable character.
Anyway, blah, blah, blah, as Lancelot might say. ; )
And Hi, back at you, although you certainly don’t need to introduce yourself at this point. I always appreciate getting your kind and thoughtful comments. : ) I’m glad you’re enjoying the fic, and we’ll see how Res!Arthur and Lancelot develop—learning from the past or doomed to repeat it? Hmmm . . . .